Vaccinations

[manymuddypaws]

I didn't want to hijack the puppy thread so thought I would put my .02 cents in a new thread

quoted from Peggy "Vaccinations are not fool proof"

I second that. Vaccinations are thought to be a safeguard that will prevent your dog from getting sick. Unfortunately this is very wrong. I had always vaccinated my dogs on a regular basis- every year until the dog was around 8 or so and then I figured their natural immunity would be built up enough.
When Wicca was just 2 years she almost died. It was THE most horrible thing that I have ever had to deal with. She was fully vaccinated and still managed to contract Parvo. She was 2. Generally a young healthy dog will not contract parvo even if exposed to it- mostly those who get parvo are really young, have immune problems or are older. It happened 10 days after I had her at an obedience trial- she was lethargic, had no appetite and was throwing up. No diarrhea. I was concerned about her change in behavior and took her to my clinic where she saw a new vet as my regular guy was on holidays. She was diagnosed with pancreatitis- and sent home with meds. Wicca was very near death that night- her face was sunken in- she was nothing but bones and was severely dehydrated. I called the emergency clinic at 3 in the morning. Right away this vet suspected parvo and that was the start of the worst 11 days of my life...Up until then Wicca had been healthy, fit and the image of youth. In under 12 hours she had wasted away to nothing. She was hospitalised for 11 days- twice the clinic phoned me to come say goodbye to her. She survived. almost 2 thousand dollars later, and 6 months of recovery -she has a mild heart murmer as a result but is otherwise healthy. I have switched vet clinics and have seen a homeopathic vet about Wicca' obvious immune problem. Oh- and this same dog was hit with kennel cough a month prior- even with bordatella.

I no longer vaccinate on a regular basis. Vito has had his puppy vaccines and that is all he will ever get unless I choose to trial him in the states.

And on side note I work at a boarding kennel and 'though we require dogs have bordatella we realise that the vaccine does little to prevent an outbreak.

[Dillydoodle]

wow what a scarey story! Poor Wicca! I am glad she made it through. I have Gus who has pemphigus (autoimmune disorder) and anytime he gets vaccinations he has an outbreak- so now we do not vaccinate him for anything without titer testing . Rabies is a requirement here every three years but i may play that by ear, he had his rabies right before coming to me and within three days was in a full fledged outbreak...so it is something to consider. NO lyme disease vaccine for him either - Dillon is vaccinated but i think the vaccines actually caused some of Dillon's contact allergies.. cant prove it but the timing makes me wonder.....

Emilie

[MVons]

Emilie your Vet should be able to advise on rabies prevalence in your area. I am lucky to overhear my Vet say no case in 45 years. But if a non-vaccinated dog with rabies bites someone, that person has to go to emergency because no doctor will touch them. near Kalispell, MT, there are cases of rabies.

http://b-naturals.com/Fal1997.php is a website that gave different point of view on vaccinations and reactions to them. www.sagekeep.com has their vaccination schedule for their Bernese Mountain Dogs. I'll discuss these with my Vet who agrees with the 3 year vaccination schedule.

Of course there was one other site that I failed to bookmark.+GOOFY+ that mentioned giving the 12 week at 16 weeks. Back to researching that subject.

Merrie

[mtoy]

This is a tender subject with me too, Millie had the recent rabies vaccine reaction and my son had a severe pertussis vaccine reaction as a baby. I avoided what I thought were the riskiest vaccines for my son following his reaction, and will do the same for my dogs from now on. Link is getting his puppy shots but after that it will only be titers. No more at all for Millie, she's 10 yrs old. There is a Yahoo group about the subject:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/TruthAboutVaccines/?yguid=221857706
They have advice for dealing with the vaccine police.:WINK:

What a horrible experience with Wicca! I honestly can't imagine it. Thank goodness she pulled through and has such a caring owner. :SMILE:

[MVons]

I'm always amazed on the internet when I go back to find a website, I never find it but find others of interest.

There seems to be discussion of what type of vaccine - killed, modified live. Here is a summary from http://spear-barkennels.com/Dog_Diseases.php

Do all current vaccines for a given disease provide similar protection?

Modified Live Vaccines (MLV) - this type of vaccine induces rapid active specific immunity due to exposure to the actual disease agent. They provide a greater immune response with longer duration of immunity. They have a potential to become active and cause disease, especially in a dog with a weakened immune system. Careful storage and handling are required to prevent breakdown of the active ingredients. Some researchers blame the rise of immune-mediated disease on frequent vaccinations large numbers of Modified-live viruses. They feel this over-stimulates the immune system causing it to recognize everything as foreign and leading to tissue rejections. This theory is not widely accepted by most veterinary practitioners.

Inactivated Vaccines (Killed) - this type of vaccine requires more than a single dose to induce active specific immunity and have a shorter duration of immunity. Killed vaccines cannot become virulent are less likely to be immunosuppressive or cause abortions. They remain stable during storage but are more likely to cause allergic reactions, require more initial injections and more frequent booster shots.

Bacterial Vaccines - more likely to cause immune-mediated reactions than do viral vaccines. Killed vaccines, especially those which contain adjuvants, are more likely to cause adverse reactions than do modified live vaccines. Because immune mediated reactions are genetically determined, some breeds, especially certain families of dogs, are at much greater risk of developing adverse reactions than the canine population as a whole.

A different website states: If you vaccinate with conventional vaccines, try not to allow your vet to use anything but a killed vaccine (however, this option may not always be available). Modified live vaccines are considered the most dangerous by experts in immunology. Killed vaccines do not replicate in the vaccinated animal, do not carry the risk of residual virulence and do not shed attenuated viruses into the environment. Furthermore, killed vaccines do not bear the risk of contamination with adventitial viruses present in the tissue culture cells used to grow MLV vaccines.

Another states: Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces an immunity which is good for the life of the pet (ie: canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titer is not "boosted" nor are more memory cells induced. They go on to prefer MLV because it is life long protection.

It is a tough decision whether we risk side effects but have better protection from MLV, or go with the safer but maybe not as effective killed. Your Vet would have the most current information as some dates on these websites were in the 1990's.

By the way most recommended shots at 8 weeks instead of 6 weeks just for immune system maturity. We know that from children in my family, less side effects the older they are.

Merrie

[corgimom]

My vet told me there is no available Titer testing yet for Lepto - For the other things there are; which I plan to do with Cody. Our rabies vaccination here is every 3 years for dogs.

I don't plan on giving my 13 year old indoor cat the usual vaccinations next year. He has skin allergies and some other issues going on.

Amanda, that is a very scary experience that you went through with Wicca; you must have been so stressed. I am glad that everything turned out okay for the both of you.

[taflar]

When Wicca was just 2 years she almost died. It was THE most horrible thing that I have ever had to deal with. She was fully vaccinated and still managed to contract Parvo. She was 2.

The bad part is that some diseases like parvo mutate. So the vaccine has to be changed or modified to go along with the new strain.

Usually an adult dog will not get parvo. They usually build up a natural immunity by being exposed over time.

Peggy

[manymuddypaws]

Peggy that is what my vet had said-Wicca's parvo was a type that he had never seen before- very aggressive but without the usual signs of diarrhea etc. He also said that because she has had it once she is not likely to ever get it again...

None of my other dogs were sick by the way- I even had at that time a 5month old Rottweiler pup living with me. Wicca for whatever reason had a lower immune system. Her age was one of the reasons that the first vet gave as to why he didn't test for parvo...

[corgimom]

Some info on Rabies vaccine research;

http://itchmo.com/read/rabies-challenge-fund-to-test-long-term-immunity-in-rabies-vaccine-for-pets_20070703#more-1443

http://www.newsday.com/search/ny-lspets5278482jul02,0,6559208.column


"The concurrent 5- and 7-year challenge studies trials will begin next month under the supervision of Schultz, who is volunteering his time as principal investigator. The University of Wisconsin will donate all the overhead costs.

"I've been an activist for a long time," Dodds says, "and this is the first time I've seen the public mount a grass-roots effort because the veterinary profession and the vaccine industry haven't done anything."

Five years from now, Schultz will likely have the proof of what he has known all along: That the rabies vaccine provides long-term immunity. In the face of that, the government can lengthen the mandated revaccination intervals."

[MVons]

The bad part is that some diseases like parvo mutate. So the vaccine has to be changed or modified to go along with the new strain.

Usually an adult dog will not get parvo. They usually build up a natural immunity by being exposed over time. PeggyChester will be getting an additional parvo vaccination at 18 weeks. Last summer our Vet had vaccinated a whole litter completing at 16 weeks and they got parvo the 17th week. I will ask my Vet if the 16 week additional parvo shot is the latest "variety" of the disease otherwise why get more of the same vaccination. Hemet is a hotbed of parvo and Chester is not supposed to touch the ground when we visit the Vet. I find a parking strip grass for the quick pee before returning up the hill to no parvo, only heartworm.


Exciting on the rabies interval! Once it is agreed on 5 years, we can ask the county to offer 5 year license mentioning the money income they will get for a 5 year license when the dog may not live that long, and cost savings in not processing every 3 years.